User talk:HighInBC/Archive 70

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Poepkop

Hi, rather than taking administrative action myself in the WP:UAA case about Poepkop that you just blanked, I found two Dutch-speaking administrators and tried to get their viewpoints. One answered here: User talk:Jfdwolff#Need a Dutch-speaking admin. It seems to me that because the English Wikipedia has a huge population of editors from multiple nationalities and language backgrounds (including Dutch), and that the name "Poepkop" is considered obscene by the IP arguing in UAA as well as by the admin who replied, and the fact that the name "Poepkop" was chosen deliberately and not merely a nickname having an unfortunate meaning in another language (like the town Fucking, Austria), then the user Poepkop should probably be persuaded to change his username. I suggested as much in an early comment on UAA but was more or less drowned out. ~Amatulić (talk) 23:16, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I personally found the report to be less than clear cut and would prefer it to be discussed at WP:RFCN before any action is taken. My primary reasoning was that it has been on the noticeboard for over 10 hours and had generated a lot of discussion. That being said I have no objection to you using whatever discretion you prefer.

The fact that nobody ever had any issue with this until someone logged out showed up to make the report certainly gives me pause and makes me wonder just how disruptive it really is. HighInBC 23:29, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Amatulic: To be clear you can take whatever action you see fit, I have no objection. HighInBC 23:56, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Mentoring Romanian-and-Proud

HBC I'm offering my services to mentor the above blocked editor. I had a positive interaction with them on certain edits on the World War II talk page, regarding Romania's status as a major Axis power. R & P seems quite amenable to reason if issues are clearly explained to them. I already mentor one editor, and I see no major issues that could not be resolved with dialogue and some strong ground rules. I have no dog in this "fight" but I do feel that the editors unblock request indicated a self-awareness that is quite rare in most classic it was all blah blahs fault...type. This indicated an admittance of error and a willingness to learn. Also this :If one's imperfect, you just dispose of him/her? We are new, we are crude, we need time to adapt and older editors willing to help us do that Sounds like an attempt to articulate a willingness to accept mentorship. Thoughts? Cheers, Simon Irondome (talk) 00:58, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I have no objection to you mentoring this user. That being I am not going to reverse @Future Perfect at Sunrise:'s block of this user when it is a valid block. If Future wants to reverse the block so you can try out mentoring then that is fine with me. HighInBC 01:35, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

December 2015

This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "R2me2". Thank you. --Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 12:16, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Disagreement regarding close

You know, had I not taken that issue of offensive language to ANI, Nyttend would have reported ME for edit-warring with one more revert. We were discussing it at his talk page, as I linked at the post. Some animals are, in fact, more equal than others. So ANI is CYA for the rest of us mere mortals, even if you thought it to be a mere bunfight and content dispute. ;-) Just saying. (And another reason I plan to reapply for adminship sometime next Spring...hope you will consider supporting me next time) Montanabw ^(talk) 18:58, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It is a content dispute. Admins are not for settling content disputes. There is no issue with inequality here, ANI is not for every little squabble. HighInBC 19:04, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps, but this "squabble" also entailed edit-warring, and use of highly offensive language. I think it was escalating and taking it to ANI ended the discussion. In my view, that was a better outcome than a 3RR violation and a block. Curious (sincere question) if your views would have been the same had something like the "n-word" or other ethnic slurs been used with similar arguments. Montanabw ^(talk) 20:09, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comparing "cripple" to the n-word is absurd. Consider that only one of those words had to be replaced with a proxy. HighInBC 19:34, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm. If you consider the comparison absurd, You might want to peek at this. Montanabw ^(talk) 07:56, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I am fully aware of the PC police. Nonetheless which words we choose to use in an article is a content matter. I stand by my statement that the comparison is absurd, even if the BBC makes it. I promise you that racial slurs are far worse than valid words for disability that have fallen out of favour recently. HighInBC 16:34, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Wow. Just wow. No, use of slurs and offensive language is not a "content matter"; you and I appear to agree that someone who wanted to use a racial slur would be reverted immediately as vandalism and blocked without even a trip to ANI if they persisted. Disabilities are no different from race in that no one "chooses" to be disabled and it's not something people can change. I cannot believe that someone who occupies a position of trust on wikipedia as an administrator such as yourself can think this is a "PC police" issue (PC being, of course, a euphemism for "I reserve the right to use insulting slurs about people who aren't like me"). The comparison is far from absurd, but I can only inquire if you also think it appropriate to call people with Downs syndrome "retards" or people with muscular issues "spastics"? Are older people inherently "senile"? I am just stunned that an apparently adult person living in 21st century North America still has such thinking. Wow. (shakes head) Montanabw ^(talk) 21:23, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Listen I am not going to argue the changing nature of the English language with you. I know enough to know that it is a matter of opinion. I am not going to play the comparison game with you as playing on slippery slopes is not very fun.

There is a difference between a legitimate term that has fallen out of fashion and a hateful slur. Please consider that your view point may not be the only one. It most certainly is a matter to be settled on the article talk page and not one for admins to settle by force. Which words are acceptable is a very divisive matter and administrators should not take sides.

If the word is acceptable or not is something for the community to decide, but someone not choosing to follow your particular sensitivities is not a behavioural issue, and I will not treat it as such.

I am tired of this debate which was old when I was a child, if you think I am out of line then I encourage you to seek community review of my actions. I think if you do you will find people are not so enthusiastic about throwing English words down the memory hole and embracing newspeak. HighInBC 03:15, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I can't decide if you are just a very young child admin (I am guessing you must be over 18, but I shall not speculate further) or if you are older but simply haven't lived in the real world long enough to know that "cripple" is a slur. I certainly am well aware that there are many other people like yourself who don't understand that respect is the principle at stake here. To describe polite language as akin to Orwellian tells me that you really don't get it at all. Society has decided that hate speech is not simply "a matter of opinion" and I truly wish you understood that words that pack a negative emotional punch for those who are targeted are just as bad for those at the receiving end, even if they fall short of a legally-sanctionable attack. Were someone to call you, personally, a "crippled, retarded, spastic, moron", why I am sure you would take offense and you are, presumably, none of these things. If so, imagine how it must feel to someone who was so described in 1915 being called that today? Montanabw ^(talk) 04:58, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I think that the misuse of the term "hate speech" detracts from very real abuses. I think that you are essentially cheapening the term by casting it so broadly. Many of these words you object to such as "senile" and "crippled" are not hate speech or slurs, they are technical terms that over time have fallen out of fashion. In a few years someone might make a similar argument about "disabled". These things change over time and they are most certainly a matter of opinion. You are welcome to seek community review of my actions, I am familiar with your line of thinking and don't need further education about the legitimacy of language from you. HighInBC 05:05, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

OK, but do remember that less than 100 years ago, racial slurs that you have indicated to be offensive were considered acceptable in polite company. As recently as 1987, a state governor claimed that a particularly offensive word for African-American children was still acceptable. We both agree that language evolves; a word acceptable 50 or 100 years ago is often not today. I hope you eventually learn about the legitimacy of modern language from someone. I will hope for your future enlightenment. Montanabw ^(talk) 06:43, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless determining the current state of language as it pertains to an article is a content issue and is not to be settled by an appeal to authority. HighInBC 06:47, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Edit-warring was a concern, though. I addressed the question with the other user at his talk (because more than one article was involved), and that user, appeared to pretty much refuse to play ball, so I still think it was best to pop over to ANI, in an abundance of caution. I would normally agree with you (and I haven't dragged anyone to ANI for a very long time), but the edit-warring and the futility of the user talk page discussion was what prompted my decision. Montanabw ^(talk) 07:21, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

78.26's RFA Appreciation award

	The 78.26 RFA Appreciation award
	Thank you for the participation and support at my RFA. It is truly appreciated. I hope to be of further help around here, and if you see me doing something dumb, you know where to find me. Again, I thank you. 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 23:56, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Happy Christmas!

		Happy Christmas!
		Have a happy holiday season. May the year ahead be productive and happy. John (talk) 18:48, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Season's Greetings

	Wishing you a ~~Charlie Brown~~ Charlie Russell Christmas! 🎄
	Best wishes for your Christmas Is all you get from me 'Cause I ain't no Santa Claus Don't own no Christmas tree. But if wishes was health and money I'd fill your buck-skin poke Your doctor would go hungry An' you never would be broke." —C.M. Russell, Christmas greeting 1914. Montanabw ^(talk)

Arbitration enforcement 2 case closed

You are receiving this message because you are a party or offered a preliminary statement and/or evidence in the Arbitration enforcement 2 case. This is a one-time message.

The Arbitration enforcement 2 arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t) has been closed, and the following remedies have been enacted:

1.1) The Arbitration Committee confirms the sanctions imposed on Eric Corbett as a result of the Interactions at GGTF case, but mandates that all enforcement requests relating to them be filed at arbitration enforcement and be kept open for at least 24 hours.

3) For his breaches of the standards of conduct expected of editors and administrators, Black Kite is admonished.

6) The community is reminded that discretionary sanctions have been authorised for any page relating to or any edit about: (i) the Gender Gap Task Force; (ii) the gender disparity among Wikipedians; and (iii) any process or discussion relating to these topics, all broadly construed.

For the Arbitration Committee, Kharkiv07 (T) 02:41, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Arbitration enforcement 2 case closed

Merry Christmas, HIBC

And may your holidays be merry and bright . . . . Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 04:58, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Season's Greetings to HighInBC

Poepkop (talk) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas6}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Poepkop (talk) 16:26, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Best wishes for the holidays...

		Season's Greetings
		Wishing you a Happy Holiday Season, and all best wishes for the New Year! Hafspajen (talk) 11:53, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I just noticed a ping didn't work.

At User talk:SageRad#Hello :). --Tryptofish (talk) 21:24, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for pointing that out. I don't think much can be done now though. HighInBC 00:54, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Happy New Year!

	Happy New Year!
	Best wishes for a wonderful 2016!---- WV ● ✉ ✓ 00:06, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies

I didn't mean to imply that that is how ArbCom is. I know ArbCom takes a lot of criticism. I know you have a tough job. That is why I posted there. I still feel that the very short rationale puts ArbCom in a bad light, and I don't want that. I've removed the links and rephrased. My apologies for that. My intention was to say how you may be seen, not how I see you. I should have phrased it differently. I am sorry. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:57, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your response. I am sorry if I came down hard on you but I simply cannot help to roll my eyes and groan every time someone tries to compare something relatively minor to atrocities. It is just a website after all. HighInBC 02:00, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Happy New Year HighInBC!

Happy New Year!

HighInBC,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. Poepkop (talk) 13:40, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year 2016}} to user talk pages.

.

Happy New Year, HighInBC!

Happy New Year!

HighInBC,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. Regards, Yamaguchi先生 (talk) 22:19, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Happy New Year 2016}} to send this message

Happy New Year, HighInBC!

Happy New Year!

HighInBC,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:32, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.